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Talk:Lorna Dane (Earth-616)
This page has been blocked for quite a while. Shouldn't it be unblocked? Copycat989 09:59, 8 February 2007 (UTC) :I think the page should have a diffirent image at the top, cause that one makes her look more like a villain, dude. -- User:MutantKingMagneto (UTC) This page definitely needs to be worked on. It completely leaves out half her powerset, her history is choppy and somewhat messed up, and I feel like whoever wrote it didn't exactly appreciate her. In my opinion, there's absolutely no reason for there to be anything about Magneto in the description of her powers. There's nothing in Rachel's profile that says how much less powerful she is than Jean. LornaDane ::I don't edit the powers section that much, but I think that the Magneto comparisons are useful. I don't think its that editors don't appreciate her, but that "like Magneto, but less powerful" pretty much conveniently sums up her powers in one sentence. ;) As for the bio, its okay, but it could always use some more detail. I work on it now and then but I don't always have access to all her info. That, and she spent most of the Claremont years being mind controlled by one supervillian after the next! ;)--Stature 18:41, 17 October 2008 (UTC) ::Well, then everyone who's less powerful than anyone with similar powers should be noted as such, right? See where I'm going with this? Lol. I mean, it's rather annoying that she gets branded the less powerful Magneto when no one else has that problem. In other character bios, like I said, we don't see for Rachel, "Like Jean, but less powerful." It just seems a useless way to downplay a character. It's rather obvious she's less powerful, no? If she were as powerful, Magneto wouldn't be much of a threat against the X-Men, aside from his politics within the mutant community. He certainly wouldn't be taking on entire X-Men teams on his own. Get what I'm saying? Stating 3 times that she's "significantly less powerful" than Magneto makes her seems useless. Also, her skills shown in recent years were hardly addressed, and all of what Austen and Milligan did with her power evolution was completely ignored. And her run in RaFotSE and Emperor Vulcan were hardly addressed as well. I mean, none of this is a huge deal or anything, but if you want to keep everyone who seeks info as much reliable information as you can, I'd suggest working on the page, or at least opening it up so others could work on it. I'm sure editorial mandates will be thrown in if you guys don't like the imformation people put in here. :) (LornaDane 17:10, 18 October 2008 (UTC)) :::The thing is there is precedence for the Magneto comparisons. She was introduced as Magneto's daughter, was the governments secret weapon against Magneto in X-Factor, and augmented Magneto's powers in Genosha, and then retconned back into Magneto's daughter again a few years ago. There is some logic to it. (And I always though Rachel was supposed to be more powerful than Jean. ;) ) And the page is open to everyone. Feel free to work on the kinks. I'm looking forward to seeing what you have.--Stature 17:25, 18 October 2008 (UTC) Magneto Was Her Dad? ::Was Magneto her Dad?! I mean wasn't it a robot? I thought that she was tricked by Mesmero into believing that and her real parents put her on adoptions. :--User:MutantKingMagneto (UTC) It was revealed in Austen's run in 2004 that Magneto was, in fact, her father. The big reveal happened in "Sacred Vows," and was further explained in the "Draco" arc that followed. :--LornaDane ::I'm not crazy about the retcon, but so far its been allowed to stand, so until Marvel overturns it I we should honor it.--Stature 18:41, 17 October 2008 (UTC) :::I'd like to move to remove it from the character bio and put it as speculation because Chuck Austen is a crack monkey who sucks at research, I mean, for the following reasons: :::(1) Lorna Dane was adopted by her _father's_ sister and her husband according to official court documents according to X-Men Vol. 1 #52. That sort of implies her father was known since they know who his sister was. :::(2) Moira MacTaggert messed with Magneto's DNA while he was reduced to an infant state by Mutant Alpha. As such, even his known biological offspring couldn't match DNA with him. That Lorna managed to do so proves a con is taking place. :::Basically, we've been put in a situation where the most recent author has asserted something as true that all other available evidence strongly suggests is false, and rather than swallow a lie hook, line, and sinker, I'd rather portray the claim skeptically. :::--Squirrelloid 09:02, May 11, 2010 (UTC) ::::Actually, her appearance among Magneto's other children during the House of M event shows that HE, at least, considers it possible she's his daughter (or Wanda does). I'm not going to defend Austen's run, but there's some extra bits, here and there, that point to it being a possibility. Though definitely questionable. ::::--GrnMarvl14 13:30, May 11, 2010 (UTC) :::::Well, shows that Wanda considers it possible. I mean, the real explanation is the author of House of M swallowed Austen's story. In continuity, since reality of House of M is entirely subject to Wanda's will, that means she swallowed it too. Of course, she also created people out of nothing - you'll note she didn't bother bringing Magda or Isabel back from the dead (or Anya for that matter - all iirc) - something that is even more odd than placing Polaris as part of the family. (And in House of M, Lorna Dane really is Magneto's daughter - because Wanda said so). :::::Almost of the evidence (even the US official documents) are based on perceptions of one or more characters, and thus potentially false. What is not subject to falsification is the alteration of Magneto's DNA (which happened *on screen*), which makes the genetic match an impossibility. That she did get one means her samples or the tests were tampered with, and thus there is definitely a con going on. Basically, the one proveable falsification arguably disproves the whole house of cards. :::::I mean, its still remotely plausible that Lorna is actually Magneto's daughter, but its by no means certain from the evidence available. She's still being conned into thinking its true, even if it is actually true. (Which begs the question 'why would you con someone into believing the truth?') :::::So while we should mention the potential that Magneto is her father, and explain the evidence involved and describe the stories in her history, we shouldn't uncritically accept Magneto as her father by listing him in the relatives section of the sidebar as 'biological father'. Proposal - list Magneto as 'putative father', and remove the rest of Magneto's relatives since they're all conditional on the truth of his claim. :::::--Squirrelloid 19:13, May 11, 2010 (UTC) :::::::I don't think wrapping stories into pretzels to arrive at a preferred outcome is the way to go. I don't like the retcon either, but like "Beyonder the Inhuman Mutant" and "Azazel is Nightcrawler's father" -- we're stuck with it.--Max 19:26, May 11, 2010 (UTC) Who's Isabel? Honestly, House of M's a pretty poor version of another story done in the novels where Magneto got the Cosmic Cube and created a world where mutants lived in peace with humans. Of course, in that one, he also brought back Magda and Anya and Polaris wasn't with them (of course, that's from over a decade ago, pre-Austen). I'd be willing to agree on changing her status in relation to him, but you have to keep in mind that Handbooks refer to her as his daughter (and list his other children as her half-siblings). You've also got Crystal who, sort of, considers her a sister-in-law (even though she's married to someone else now. See War of Kings #1 for a look at that relationship). The Handbooks also mention Magneto's relationship with Polaris' mother to be an affair, and that she was married at the time of her death (explaining how Lorna was adopted by her father's sister. It WAS her father's sister, just not her biological father's sister). As for Moira...HOW, exactly, did she mess with his DNA? Was it in a manner that would affect a paternity test? Paternity tests aren't about genes matching 100%. Specific sequences are looked at. Moira might not have touched the ones that are tested. A genetic scan could have been produced a similar result. We're not looking at Magneto pre- and post-mutation. We're looking at Polaris and post-mutation Magneto. Plus, were the genetic samples compared actually FROM a post-mutation Magneto? --GrnMarvl14 19:36, May 11, 2010 (UTC) :Isabel is Magneto's lover(?) from his black ops days. She appears in iirc (although she's not listed there. Maybe its in one of UXM 273-6), and probably other places, but I'd have to go dumpster diving through Magneto-related issues. :The exact nature of the DNA modification isn't well defined. It happened pre- X-Men Vol 1 #104, ie, a long time ago, but was relevant as recently as ~UXM300. Magneto was quite upset about it, so by implication the changes are pretty major. :As far as I know, any samples Moira had were likely destroyed before Chuck Austen did any X-Men writing. I mean, the research center has been destroyed almost as often as the X-Mansion. Certainly the only place Lorna would have been able to get a DNA sample from Magneto would have been post-modification. (I'd have to suffer through Austen's writing again to see where she actually gets the sample to formulate a less generic response). :Stature - I'm not a big fan of 'most recent published theory is best theory', especially since if I were writing Marvel comics I'd have villains that told lies to the heroes as part of their devious plans. Given how gullible Marvel heroes apparently are, this seems like an excellent plan. :I'm not, however, wrapping stories into pretzels. I'm looking at the full range of evidence and arriving at the most likely conclusion (Lorna is being conned). Also, you can't retcon the 'Moira tampered with his DNA' story... I think that ends up with Magneto never turning evil again, or Magneto never having been good in the first place, and continuity suddenly stops making sense entirely. :--Squirrelloid 19:50, May 11, 2010 (UTC) ::You can disagree with the stories logic all you want, and I'm not saying you aren't raising interesting points. But the official line since UXM #431 is that Lorna is Magneto's daughter. We are bound to honor the intent of the story, even if it doesn't sit well with us.--Max 19:57, May 11, 2010 (UTC) :::We are bound to honor that the story happened as was shown. We are not bound to believe what the characters believe. We can report Lorna *believes* Magneto is her father. We can report the reasons why she believes that. Whether we treat them as *facts* or not depends on the quality of the evidence available. --Squirrelloid 20:03, May 11, 2010 (UTC) ::::No, we are bound to honor the intent of the story, which is also backed up by the handbooks. I'm not saying your ideas are bad, just that right now they are nothing more than fan fiction until Marvel says otherwise.--Max 20:20, May 11, 2010 (UTC) :::::Ah, so that's who Isabel is. Makes sense he wouldn't bring her back, though. He's had numerous lovers over the years. Can't very well bring them ALL back. :::::Magneto being upset with the DNA modification could simply be him being upset that his genetic code was screwed around with without his okay. I mean...that's a fairly big violation. In fact, I seem to remember Moira being upset with herself for that very reason. :::::Considering the Xavier Protocols survived numerous destructions, it's not impossible Magneto's genetic sample survived as well. And there's always the possibility that Moira got it from Xavier who got it from Magneto when they were on friendlier terms. :::::And, really, the most recent evidence points to her being Magneto's daughter. That should be what we put, with any dissent being here or in the notes (if there's evidence to back up the dissent, not just "it doesn't gel." Similar to X-Treme being Cyclops' brother. There's firm evidence from a creator perspective, but nothing in-continuity. So we put it in the notes/trivia section. It's a very valid piece of data, but not canon. Him being related to D'Ken, on the other hand...). :::::--GrnMarvl14 20:25, May 11, 2010 (UTC) ::::::For the Record: actual spelling Isabelle, appears in UXM 175 pg 29 at the least (in a flashback). --Squirrelloid 20:59, May 11, 2010 (UTC) Also for the record, this image seems to have some bearing on Magneto's status as her father - you'd think he'd be less dismissive if the robot's claim had a shred of truth to it. --Squirrelloid 04:06, May 12, 2010 (UTC) File:MagnetoMesmeroUXM112p7f2.PNG| :Not really. He could be denying it for any number of reasons. From genuinely not knowing (keep in mind...Polaris found out from a genetic test. Magneto didn't tell her. And keep in mind how long it took for him to tell Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch he was their father), to not wanting the X-Men to know of their relation, to simply being arrogant and not wanting to admit to himself that they were related. She WAS working with his greatest enemies, after all. Besides, HOW many villains have we seen deny stuff that was shown to be blatantly true either before or after their denial? :--GrnMarvl14 14:13, May 12, 2010 (UTC) Power Question Question, what comic book (and issue for that matter) did she lift that island after absorbing the all that energy? Quicksilver. I'm faster then you! 05:19, July 29, 2018 (UTC)